logo du MAECI partenariat Logo de byDesign eLab, un centre indépendant de recherche, développement et production en forums électroniques pour l'élaboration des politiques, qui a vu le jour en 1997 dans le cadre du programme McLuhan de l'Université de Toronto
Accueil du MAECI Plan du site Aide Politiques Partenariat Commentaires Netcast English
 
Bienvenue
Message du Ministre
Document de réflexion
Répondre aux questions
Réponses
Forum de discussion
 

Sécurité

Thank you for participating in the Dialogue on Foreign Policy. The interactive web site is now closed. The Minister's report will appear on this web site once it is released.

Ce forum est bilingue, et les participants peuvent rédiger leurs commentaires dans la langue de leur choix.

Missile Defence Shield

Participant: dfwatson

Date: 2003-03-07 17:21:36


Key words: U.S. Missile Defence Defense Shield

In 2004, the American government is planning to begin deploying an interceptor missile system in Alaska which is intended to help protect the U.S.A. against ICBM attacks. If this system is ever used, it will likely be to shoot down ballistic missiles coming down on the U.S.A. through Canadian air space from over the North Pole. This means Canada, and Canadians, could potentially be showered in radioactive or biohazardous debris from target missiles, together with remains from the interceptors. The deployment of the American shield thus represents a direct threat to Canadian security.

The Canadian government responses to this issue and it's repercussions have been muted so far. A former diplomat has been quoted as saying Canadian opposition to the missile defence shield may result in increased difficulties in resolving other Canada/U.S.A. issues!

Canada seems to have two main options:

1) Rally international support to oppose this major excalation of the arms race. Russian President Putin, among others, strongly opposes the missile defence shield.

2) Actively participate in the development of the defence shield to extend it's capabilities beyond North American air space. So far, the U.S.A. has shown no interest in international participation in this project.

Répondre à ce message

Missile Defence Shield

Participant: Fleabag

Date: 2003-03-07 18:09:59


The US has shown no interest in the safety of Canadians because it has no economic interest in the safety of Canadians. They would be more worried that our fresh water or soft-wood lumber could become tainted than any loss of life.
I suggest a pre-emptive self-defense strike against the US at our earliest convenience.

Répondre à ce message

Missile Defence Shield

Participant: Vox

Date: 2003-03-07 22:28:46


I am a little confused by your posting. My current understanding of the missile shield issue is that the US and Russia have come to an understanding on it and are "working with each other" on the framework and systems. Here are some on-line sources that illustrate my understanding:

May 16, 2002 - story in 'Guardian of London'
"... After a year of bitter Russian opposition to a scheme which Moscow warned could jeopardize global nuclear stability and spark a new arms race, the Kremlin has accepted a White House offer to cooperate on the national missile defense project (NMD). .."
Here's the URL to a copy of the story: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0516-08.htm

Jan 9, 2003 - 'Associated Press' story
"... The Russian Foreign Ministry said Thursday that Moscow has proposed a plan to work with United States on missile defenses, but a top Russian general warned that U.S. plans to build a missile shield were a threat to Russia.

The United States has said the two nations could cooperate in developing defenses against ballistic missiles, and Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Yakovenko expressed hope Washington would agree to a draft "political agreement" on missile defense submitted by Russia..."
Here's the URL to a copy of this story: http://www.macon.com/mld/philly/news/world/4908592.htm

Jan 27, 2003 - AFP ( Agence France-Presse)
"... Russia will cooperate with the United States in the joint construction of a missile defense shield "step by step," Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov said in an interview with the weekly Itogi magazine. .."
Here's the URL to a copy of this story: http://www.spacedaily.com/2003/030127142956.xablq1hh.html

So if you have (newer) contradicting information on the matter I would be most interested to update myself with it. Please post the location of the information so I can look it up.

As regards your concern that any such defence system would pose a threat to Canada, I think there is some truth to that fear although the risks existed even under NORAD and one can also argue the issue in different ways. Let me list the other possibilities and views:

- if a defence system existed then would attackers be deterred or encouraged?
- if the US were attacked anyway (without a defence system) would Canada not be threatened even worse since the missile(s) would then likely "arrive" at its(their) destination(s), and result in low altitude as well as high altitude fall-out somewhere in North America as opposed to somewhere before reaching its target?
- if a defence system existed then would it be possible to intercept missiles before they get across either of the two oceans?

A lot depends on how such defence systems would be implemented. I recall suggestions made by the US to have countries like Turkey and Russia "host" the establishment of small shorter range weapons that could bring down Iraqi missiles soon after they are fired. I suppose the idea is to explode them while they are still over Iraq. Perhaps similar ideas were suggested regarding South Korea as a possible "base" - this is just my speculation.

Actually, none of this is news. I recall experts warning in the late 80s and early 90s that the fall of the Soviet Union will actually bring on greater instability because of missing Soviet weapons (like 40 unaccounted-for "suitcases"), rogue states and terrorists. I don't recall who the experts were but I understood and agreed on their assessment at the time. I wish it weren't so but it does seem not everyone wants to. You must remember: an arms treaty only works when the participants play by the rules and actually do not want war. If you throw in rogue states where the decision is in the hands on a single person or throw in terrorists, they will laugh at your arms treaty. If the US just wanted to use its weapons to dominate the world it must first be willing to use them to take out Russia and China as well as France and the UK. There would be no world left for any idiot of a US government (or anyone) to dominate over so such scenarios are essentially mad. Terrorists can afford to use 1 missile to take out Washington DC and disrupt the US for decades. Since they are terrorists the US has no legitimate target to fire its missiles against so defence is the only response the US has.



Vox Canadiana

Répondre à ce message

Missile Defence Shield

Participant: Barretm82

Date: 2003-03-08 14:37:55


I do not want to belittle the discussions however from my perspective if we get to the point of Inter continental Ballistic Missiles launched in anger…

…perhaps we should duck and cover then kiss our butts good bye.

We don't call these weapons city killers for nothing... I think the energy from 1/2 kiloton thermal nuclear ICBM is equal to 25 Hiroshima blasts. Some of the larger ICBM is 8 Kilotons in energy or 400 times the Hiroshima blast.

I could be a bit on the low side (conservative estimate) on the energy conversion as I would have to refresh my memory on it. If someone has time to check that would be welcome.

Répondre à ce message

Missile Defence Shield

Participant: Barretm82

Date: 2003-03-08 22:26:08


That should be 8 megatons not kilotons.

Répondre à ce message

Missile Defence Shield

Participant: Vox

Date: 2003-03-09 21:00:38


"…perhaps we should duck and cover then kiss our butts good bye."

Yes, I agree and that's why I believe an ABM system can only deter a small strike from a rogue source. This is also the argument from the US.

ABM systems do not make any sense when considering a massive strike from the major powers because it would likely only be capable of intercepting some the warheads and even the fall-out from the intercepts alone would destroy the planet. The ABM system would not change the outcome of such scenarios. I also don't think any of the players can even consider the insurmountable costs of trying to "perfect" an ABM system designed against a massive strike.

I believe this is the argument why the proposed ABM system does not really change the global power balance between the big players. Perhaps this is also one of the reasons why the Russians no longer have a problem with it.



Vox Canadiana

Répondre à ce message

Missile Defence Shield

Participant: Barretm82

Date: 2003-03-08 17:32:54


Here is some cold war type of rhetoric only it comes from N. Korea today.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/07/1046826533281.html

Répondre à ce message