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Sécurité

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Allies found them, Chemical weapons...

Participant: cfallon

Date: 2003-04-08 13:06:10

Actions in Iraq under Saddam's regime could be deemed illegal because the authorities don't want those actions taken. just because its illegal, would not mean that it wasn't the right thinf to do.

Illegal acts are distinct from immoral acts.

That something is illegal can sometimes mean that the laws are screwed up.

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Allies found them, Chemical weapons...

Participant: codc01

Date: 2003-04-08 14:24:27

"Actions in Iraq under Saddam's regime could be deemed illegal because the authorities don't want those actions taken."

Sorry I don't understand this sentence. Can you clarify please, who's actions?? The 'coalition' action's or the actions of Saddam's regime to their people?

"Illegal acts are distinct from immoral acts. "

I totally agree with you... Sometimes there are laws which are immoral!! But, if the laws are agreed to by most countries of the world - then why would one country revoke that law all of a sudden? For me, if a clear majority of the world population (i think its more difficult to apply to a country) approves a law, then it should at least minimally moral..

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Allies found them, Chemical weapons...

Participant: fatmomma

Date: 2003-04-09 00:32:52

The "Coalition's" actions in invading Iraq are neither legal or moral.
like Codco, I have no idea what you are trying to say. What is your point.

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Allies found them, Chemical weapons...

Participant: codc01

Date: 2003-04-09 11:16:02

I guess its complex, since if they were going into Iraq for actually liberating the people of Iraq, I'd say its moral, but it would still be illegal, so i would still disapprove.

But we all know that the main reason for invading is something else (I have no idea which ones though, middle-east presence, friendly israel neighbour, oil, showing an exemple to other countries, etc, a terrorist threat according to the US) - then in that case its neither moral (but this depends on the eye of the beholder) nor legal.

If they would have invaded in 1988, even though i would still feel it was illegal, at least the moral justification would be much stronger than it is now.

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Allies found them, Chemical weapons...

Participant: cfallon

Date: 2003-04-09 11:52:02

Sorry, it was a bit complicated. I'll try again:

Authorities set laws. They decide what is and isn't legal. Prohibition for example, made selling and consuming alcohol illegal, because authorities did not want people drinking alcohol.

So, that an act would be called illegal says nothing of its moral status. Moreover, sometimes what authorities deem illegal says more about those authorities than the actions they are trying to prevent.

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Allies found them, Chemical weapons...

Participant: fatmomma

Date: 2003-04-12 02:45:24

Not a very good example as drinking alcohol is not that moral. The act was repealed because illegal interests were profitting and flourishing because the people wanted to consume alcohol whether it was immoral, illegal or not.
Allowing alcohol to be sold legally was seen as the least of two evils.
The same could be applied to illegal drugs; we could legalize and sell them legally and that would effectively get rid of drug dealers; I do not suggest we go that route but it is a similar stand. Hopefully legalizing hard drugs will not be seen as the lessor of two evils.

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Allies found them, Chemical weapons...

Participant: cfallon

Date: 2003-04-14 15:51:27

Well, your points only re-inforce what I am saying: making things lawful or unlawful is a calculus entirely different from moral/immoral.

And, I am just saying that by saying the war is "illegal" you are not calling into question the war, you are calling into question the process for legalizing warfare.

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Allies found them, Chemical weapons...

Participant: fatmomma

Date: 2003-04-14 22:01:57

Thats right. I think it is very important; don't you. Otherwise any country could decide that it is their best interest to attack another country without justifying it. That is the reason the USA , the Soviet Union, Britain, and other countries decided to form the UN; where disputes could be settled peacefully. The UN may not be perfect, It may be slow, the countries within it misuse it and their vetoes; but it is still a relatively young organization; It needs to be updated and strengthened. Perhaps this crisis will strengthen the collective resolve to make the UN more effective.

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Allies found them, Chemical weapons...

Participant: Barretm82

Date: 2003-04-12 15:55:19

I agree cfallon; Second example; if a law in Iraq says that speaking against Saddam initiates the penalty of a death sentence. Then that law is not just and obviously there is something wrong with it.

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